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One of the most astonishing displays of martial arts action on film in recent years, Wilson Yip's Ip Man chronicles the life of the eponymous Wing Chun master (Donnie Yen), who would later become instructor and mentor to Bruce Lee... |
why dont u ever see the Asian kungfu guys in mma?
i understand theres not a whole lot of heavyweight kunf fu type jokers in the first few ufc i think there was i "ninja" guy who got beat up (and i doubt his creds) and u do see people with kempo or judo backgrounds but were's the crazy monkey style wu shu bs no tea kwan do , aikedo, escrima, im not saying i want to see some jakie chan guy out there thats nosense. i know some of these arts (aikido, escrima/kali) are pretty usfull but becuse of the mma surge i catch myself wondering how these real fancy kung fu styles would fare agianst the mostly mu thai / jujitsu systems that seem to dominate
Wow, there are some damn uninformed answerers on here...
First off, there was Kung Fu guys in the early UFCs (Jason Delucia who fought Royce in a No Rules match about a year prior to the UFC, Keith Hackney who did Kenpo and Kung Fu hybrid).
Despite what some people think (or theorize) the reason you don't see a lot of the more ecclectic styles is that they aren't fighters period. Forget philosophy, forget being "too deadly" these people have no practical knowledge in the application of their technique. Wushu is an acrobatic style (really Wushu is any Kung Fu) but the styles you list.
Well Kali/Escrima are great, however mostly rely on stick work. No weapons in the UFC, so pretty much negates 80 percent of their art. (Even empty hand techniques translate into stick work).
Aikido: Generally worthless, it looks great on paper and during choreography but relies heavily on cooperation. Uke and Tori have to be in synch for many of the techniques to work. It is also based off of use with a sword. Nobody goes for wrists and lapels in a MMA match (or on the street) and if you can't throw someone who is actively trying to resist being thrown, then you can't really throw someone can you?
Fancy Kung Fu styles: There are some that actually spar, and actually do work. San Shou definately being one that can translate well. Cung Le is crossing over. But without actual fighting, a technique is worthless in the ring OR IN THE STREET.
"I could easily take out a fighter with no rules" Ummm no you can't. Unless you take on Mma Fighters under that ruleset constantly and can knowingly defend yourself against them, all you are doing is heresay.
I studied Krav Maga in Israel at Wingate, and here in the States under Levine. I can say in all certainity that 90 percent of the "Krav Maga" being taught stateside is worthless. Unless it is fought and drilled at a high rate of speed, with heavy Protective Gear and sparred hard and intense, it isn't real Krav Maga. Despite all the throat punching, or eye gouging, REAL Krav takes into account knowing that you will more than likely miss those areas, but that you are generally going for them. REAL Krav looks an awful lot like MMA when you see it, and it is sparred an awful lot like MMA when it comes to the unnarmed portion. It excells in learning true instinctive motions and intensity. Walking through combinations, or multi step things with a cooperative partner is not Krav. Real Krav is fought, and fought very hard. I have been to at least a dozen schools in the US and have only found one that trained the way they train in Israel.
(btw, there are plenty of former MMA fighters that teach Krav, and train in Krav, and current Kravist who also do MMA, just in case you didn't know)
Machowolf: Read up and do some research son. There is no Aikido in MMA, but there is plenty of Judo. (Also Judo is a grappling only Martial Art, no kicks. Most of the takedowns you see in MMA are Judo or wrestling derived.)
KEMPO: There are precious few TRUE kempo fighters in the UFC, most of them are kickboxers with a Kempo base who also have something else behind them. Just because Chuck Liddell has a Kempo tattoo doesn't mean that what he does in the ring is Kempo.
Monk: Look up "John Marsh vs. Kung Fu guy" on youtube no holds barred challenge match, guy gets his arm broke attempting to eye gouge. You can also look up pretty much any MMA vs. and get an idea how this works.
In case you are new to the internet, cash challenges have been made by Kung Fu masters, subsequently MMA fighters have been paid. Also the Gracies have put their art for an open challenge with No Rules for years. Kung Fuist Jason Delucia went down there and got tooled a year or so before the first UFC.
Agnostic Front: Man, you just can't get right. Pressure point strikes DO NOT WORK. Why? Simple, they go by pain tolerance (many people have various thresholds of this) they also are different on every. Same point is in a slightly different spot on a different person. Precise striking against a dummy does not prepare you for precise striking against a fully resisting moving opponent. People have a hard enough time just getting a clean shot in on someone's head or face area, what makes you think hitting the spot the size of a dime on a person who is resisting you is going to work? It is next to impossible a, and b it just does not gain results.
Also neck strikes and groin strikes were allowed in early UFCs (some used, some not) generally it mattered very little in most matches. Groin shots aren't the fight ender people think they are, and will not stop a determined person under adrenaline, or someone who is trained. Throat strikes are the same vein as pressure points, hard to land. People have a natural resistance to protecting their neck.
Also see my above reference about Krav Maga. Contrary to popular belief there are very few "kill" moves or "deadly: moves in Krav. It is meant as a means to move quickly, most of the kill shots are using weapons. They don't see a throat strike as a fight ender, they see it as a distraction to set up taking the person down and curb stomping them.
bagua: Until you take out other fighters in 1-3 blows on a repeated basis, you are not training. In order to actually be good at fighting there are no shortcuts, you simply fight (under a safe rule set or with protection) and you learn what is effective for you, and what isn't. Removing the rules and protective gear does not hinder you, it makes you more deadly.
Why are some of you so dead set on this completely ineffective ideal. It is illogical.
Removing rules only makes the person who is successful under those rules more deadly.
As you don't actively train these techniques against a live resisting person you have no PRACTICAL application of these techniques. Your most effective techniques or only effective in your own THEORY, not in practice. Because you haven't applied throat strikes, eye gouges, vein pulls or skin rips against an actual live person. Your knowledge of these techniques are no better than anyone elses.
If a guy would beat your @ss under a rule set, then he would stomp you without them. In fact he would be in a far better position to apply those "illegal" strikes than you would be, as he is versed in how to strike, already has accuracy and timing against a resisting opponent under adrenaline, and can put you in a position where they can employ such tactics at their will.
How can you justify thinking you can handle someone who can do everything but eye gouging, throat punching,groin shotting, biting and fishooking, and thinking that with the inclusion of these few techniques that you will beat him.
He knows those techniques too. You don't hold a patented knowledge of how to poke an eye or kick to the balls. They however already have the accuracy to kick you squarely in the balls, with extreme power. (As they land other kicks to accurately against a resisting opponent) they also know how to defend it (since they defend big targets all the time.)
Think of it like this...
Professional Golf has a ton of regulations that limit the tool set of a golfer. It has a limit on how many clubs you can carry, what balls you can use, what type of club you can use.
Under this argument, if you take away those rules. Which allows you to play with an oversized club head, a more forgiving ball, more clubs, that you essentially could beat a Professional Golfer at golf. (Never mind the fact that he could use those same tools to a greater effectiveness than you)
How bout this?
NASCAR has strict regulations on their cars, the type of tracks they run on etc.
Under your arguments, if removing the rules and racing on a street, you could effectively out race a Nascar driver. (Also keeping in mind he can modify the car any way in his choosing as well)
Hell insert any kind of sport in there..
Let's say putting a street baller (who still competes and works his game, which is something a "too deadly to spar guy doesn't) plays a pick up game against a NBA All Star, with no rules, does the street baller win?
Despite these being sports the ideas are still the same. A professional fighter fights. It is what he does, and he does it well, it is all he does. He is a professional for a reason, he displays a high level of skill. Now you think that by removing some of the rules which limit him as well as you, that you can stand a chance against him?
Average pro trains about 30 to 50 hours a week. (including cardio and conditioning) you train your art, what 4, maybe 6 hours a week? A pro is fighting, constantly as part of his training. Going against other highly trained fighters.
You don't spar the techniques you intend to use, in fact you have never used them against a person at full speed, chances are your instructor has never used them against a person at full speed.
How does this math end up with you winning? I just don't get it, it is the most illogical argument in the world.
Anyway, sorry for the book.
You don't see Martial Arts that are not effective in the MMA, because they are not effective. Without sparring, training actively against fully resisting opponents, and being able to have timing, accuracy, speed, and intensity behind your techniques, they are in effective. If you can't spar it often, intense, and hard, you will not be able to use it effectively when it matters period. You have no practical applicable knowledge of the technique, only a theory.
"Hundreds" or "Thousands" of years old stuff doesn't mean a thing. It was taught differently back then against a different form of combat. The world evolves, hundreds of years ago they believed leaches sucked the bad blood out, or that spirits need to be exercised. Fighting styles designed for armor and swords, or that were once fought do you no good now a days. Nothing works without actually applying it.
Too many people want to think of their art as some shortcut, that some cheap trick technique will win them the outcome of a fight. News flash, everyone will go for balls, eyes, and throats when they feel threatened. Since there aren't a ton of people in the emergency room with their throats chopped, or eyes poked out, I have a tendency to not believe heavily in the effectiveness of these techniques.
You do however see plenty of stabbings, and shootings. Some broken noses, concussions, etc.
Well that is enough of a rant, hopefully some people got the point. Others will forever be stuck in a mindset because they have a vested interest in believing what they have been doing isn't a waste of time. Since they don't want to invest in the blood, sweat, and pain that comes with actually fighting to be better at it, they will continue to believe that their work on a dummy, or a cooperative opponent will translate into an adrenaline based situation in which the attacker seriously wishes you harm.
